Stop Vaping - Videos

Aida Johan: Why are we banning vapes?

Aida Johan: But we are not banning cigarettes?

Dandiar Rosli: I have to quit or I die.

Dr Raymond Chua: They say, “Vitamin Diffusers.”

Dr Raymond Chua: So it infuses vitamins into the body.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Again, vitamins sounds healthy;

Dr Puah Ser Hon: But, it is only healthy when ingested.

Aida Johan: Ingested. 

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Not inhaled.

Aida Johan: Hello and welcome to this episode of our deep dive into vaping and its impacts. In today's special, we'll be exploring the rising concerns around vaping, what's really in a vape, and the associated risks.

Aida Johan: So joining us today, we have Adjunct Associate Professor Doctor Puah from Tan Tock Seng Hospital, and we have Adjunct Professor Dr. Raymond Chua, from the Health Sciences Authority and Dan, whom you may have seen from another article, where he talked about his painful lesson as a result of his vaping habits.

Aida Johan: So let's start with Dan. Dan, you used to be a vaper right? So how did you pick up that habit?

Dandiar Rosli: The bad habit started in April 2020. So I bought a lot of vape pods to save cash.
And then, unfortunately for me, I had shortness of breath in, like, during the COVID period which was in July 2020. So I had my first case of shortness of breath. Because, I remember, we had the meter that they give us to check our oxygen levels - the oximeter.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Yes, an oximeter.

Dandiar Rosli: Yeah, the oximeter.

Dandiar Rosli: In July, I had shortness of breath, and my SpO2 level was only like 87, 89.

Aida Johan: What is SpO2?

Dandiar Rosli: Oh, oxygen levels.

Dr Raymond Chua: Saturation levels.

Dandiar Rosli: I didn’t think it was serious.

Dandiar Rosli: I thought it was just a common flu like COVID because it was during COVID period. I had a mild flu.

Dr Raymond Chua: But you were not COVID positive at that point?

Dandiar Rosli: I thought I had COVID. Hoping it was COVID.

Dr Raymond Chua: Oh! Just after three months of vaping?

Dandiar Rosli: Yeah. Because, unfortunately for me, because my lung couldn't handle the liquid and I was like, interchanging between vaping and smoking.

Dr Raymond Chua: Ah! You were doing both.

Aida Johan: You were doing both at the same time? Or like today I vape, tomorrow I smoke? 

Dandiar Rosli: Oh no! After smoking, I will take a puff of vape for the high. I was interchanging between smoking and vaping during that period of time. Initially, I wanted to quit smoking, because I wanted to get married, and I thought it was a good way to save costs. But fortunately for me, I liked both. But because I cannot handle the addiction, because of the vape.

Dandiar Rosli: Because I enjoyed vaping because I got high actually. Smoking is sort of a bad habit, because I have to smoke after meals. Then I was constantly interchanging. I was never reducing the amount of smoking and never reducing the amount of vaping also. Yeah, I actually did more than I was supposed to.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: So I think, I think you brought up a good point, because I think a lot of people think that you can use vapes to curb.

Aida Johan: Yep.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: But what people don't realise is that you actually swapping nicotine delivery device with another one and sometimes, you don't even know how much nicotine is within that vape pod itself. So I think that's why you actually experience that, that difference between that vape and that cigarette.

Dandiar Rosli: Right. Yeah.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: But thanks for sharing.I thought that was quite interesting to know as well.

Aida Johan: Dr. Puah, you meet a lot of patients who come to you with like, lung problems, right. Do you usually hear that like they thought that vapes were safer?

Dr Puah Ser Hon: So there's always that misnomer, that myth, that vape is safer because it's been, you know, all the false information out there. So people just thought, you know, it's safer because you know, it smells better. Yeah. It tastes better. So all these things are just to catch you off guard, get you hooked to another device.

Aida Johan: So when you say that, like, vapes are not actually safer than cigarettes, right?
Is it like the nicotine content or, like what, there are other chemicals.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Yeah. So it looks like liquid isn't it, actually it's solvents, but it held, it holds propylene glycol which is antifreeze. Vegetable glycerine which sounds edible, but it's edible but not inhaled, right. So all these things hold all the chemicals within the vape pod itself. Not to mention nicotine. So nicotine itself can cause harm.
If you're young, you take nicotine. It stuns brain growth. Your attention is not very good anymore, after that. Then nicotine harms the heart, the lungs and also the brain as well. Yeah.

Dr Raymond Chua: And then the e-vaporisers, you know, the liquid.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Yeah.

Dr Raymond Chua: Because of the - it contains things like formaldehyde and benzene.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: That's right.

Dr Raymond Chua: And all this, you know, when ingested into the lungs will also create, like, risk of cancer.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Yeah.

Dr Raymond Chua: So there have been, you know, reported studies of risks of leukaemia as well as Nasopharyngeal Carcinoma.

Aida Johan: Actually right, we have a visual aid to show you how much cigarettes actually - So actually, in one of these vape pods, there's the same amount of nicotine as up to 70 sticks of cigarettes. But now, that we are seeing it, it's actually quite a lot.

Dandiar Rosli: I can visually see the danger.

Dr Raymond Chua: The pyramid of death.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: I think that's an interesting concept that people don't understand as well, the cigarette is one delivery device, but there's a time limit to it. Because once you inhale everything, it ends at the filter, you throw it away. The vape pod itself comes in, it’s battery operated. So, it goes as long as the battery can last, and as long as your vape pod has the liquid inside it. So there is this term, we call grazing. You know like cows grazing on grass. So they can actually graze on vapes. And the whole day they can just, like you said, finish up 70 cigarette sticks. Yeah. So it is actually really hard to quit.

Aida Johan: Wait, a day?

Dr Puah Ser Hon: So if they finish up the entire pod in a day

Dr Puah Ser Hon: It's equivalent to 70 sticks.

Dr Raymond Chua: I must say, Dan was not very heavy then. We have had people who are really taking one pod a day.

Aida Johan: One pod a day.

Dr Raymond Chua: Which is 70 cigarettes a day.

Aida Johan: Meanwhile, you took one pod for a whole week, right.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Yeah. So I think it's really the nicotine addiction itself, right. How much hit that they need. So I think another thing about these vape pod is because you can actually adjust the electrical current sometimes and you can increase the dose, reduce the dose. Like it's really...it's such a, such a personalised device. People really take it as a toy.

Dr Raymond Chua: It looks very cool. Right? I mean, there is USB stick, you know. It looks like it. Yeah, it looks very cool for the, especially, for the youths.

Aida Johan: So you see this one right. Taro flavoured. It’s quite cool.

Dr Raymond Chua: There is mango, lychee, and strawberry. Whatever fruits you have, you know, you will find.

Aida Johan: In a vape form.

Dr Raymond Chua: And I think it's precisely the youths that are finding it very attractive because I mean, you know, cigarettes has that pungent smell. This one, it smells so nice. People say that I can smell a fruity smell. It's no longer the last time when people say.

Aida Johan: I smell smoke.

Dr Raymond Chua: I smell secondhand smoke.

Aida Johan: Yeah. 

Dr Raymond Chua: In fact, people are saying that I smell fruity smell either next to the toilet, next to the room.

Aida Johan: Some more right now, there's like a new thing where it's not vapes, but, influencers right, not Singaporean influencers, other countries influencers. They are, promoting, they are pushing these new, like, e-cigarette alternatives where they say, like there's no nicotine, there's no chemicals. You just inhale, right, and it tastes like fruits. It tastes like candy and all that. Has it reached Singapore yet?

Dr Raymond Chua: Actually HSA is aware of this. I mean, I think usually what they do is they market to people who are very susceptible, you know, because they say, like, vitamin diffusers. So, you know, it infuses vitamins into the bodies and all these.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Here, I'd like to interject again. Again, vitamin sounds healthy, but it's healthy when ingested.

Aida Johan: Ingested. 

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Not inhaled. So when you inhale it, don't know what sort of stuff that holds it together, you inhale it, it irritates the lungs, you cough, chest tightness, breathlessness, there’s all that stuff. So because you actually don't really know what's in that liquid. It may look clear, it smells nice, but you really do not know. You know, I just, another point I'd like to make is that, to make that smell, to make that taste, you need chemicals. And those chemicals, some of it have even been shown to cause cancers.

Aida Johan: Usually how many puffs can like one of this one.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: The latest ones, they actually have a sign at the bottom saying, good up to how many thousand uses. The reason behind that is because of the metal component within the vape itself. So repeated heating causes it to degrade. So as it degrades, then you release all the manganese, the arsenic, nickel, cadmium and all that jazz. And the heavy metals and the Metalloids, yeah.

Dandiar Rosli: The doctor diagnosed me with Pulmonary Alveolar Proteinosis (PAP). They determined the diagnosis through a bronchoscope where they did a scan. Where they intubated me and had to check some specimens of my lungs. There's no way for me to speak to anyone because I was intubated for around 17 days. So when they diagnosed me, it was actually my wife who actually explained to me what was happening. Most part of it, I didn’t understand. I don't even respond or reply. Even the surgery, my wife had to sign it. That period was really painful for me. I had to go through four lung lavage. Per lung lavage was like $10,000. So all in was like around $40,000. The lavage, and the procedure. That doesn't include, the rest of the stay, because I spent, like, almost three months in the hospital in total, so, actually, I spent so much more.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Thanks for sharing. It's nice for my side to hear your perspective of it as well, because when, whenever we, we take care of people in the ICU, we do try our best, especially to ensure comfort as well, you know. I mean, if you don't mind, I'll share a little bit more details. It may sound a bit graphic, but I hope you are okay with that. When you mentioned, intubation, what we actually mean is that we put in a breathing tube that goes directly into the lungs. So when a tube is inside going directly into the lungs, you can't speak, you can't eat, and you can't drink any water as well. To describe what’s Pulmonary Alveolar Proteinosis (PAP) which you said so nicely, or PAP for short. I'm not sure, do you all know what that is? What's inside?

Aida Johan: You look so passionate about it. So I didn’t want to interrupt.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: So inside the lungs, the air sacs inside the lungs is filled with very, very thick, milky like secretions. So, when it’s so thick, you can’t really cough it out. You can’t really suck it out as well. That's why the lavage was important. And what your doctors did was that they had to bring you to the operating theatre. They put in what we call a rigid scope. So it's different than the usual scopes that we usually do. And what we do is that we take one part of the lung at a time, push in saline. Lots of it. Sometimes up to 15 litres of it, just to wash out the lung. So until we clear up that really, really thick secretions, only then you can start to breathe again. Can you imagine your air sacs just filled with all sorts of goo. That oxygen just cannot penetrate through.

Dr Raymond Chua: I think for Dan, even one time couldn't get, everything cleared. So you have to go through that a few times.

Aida Johan: So this was the total amount of bottles that filled with the

Dandiar Rosli: That was only the first surgery actually.

Aida Johan: This is the first one. So this is just one lung?

Dandiar Rosli: No, one lung and one lung and then I had to do four surgeries altogether. So 1 lung took like 20 saline. 

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Looking at your lavages, Yeah. You can see that. I think you start off with a little bit of blood. That's why it's a bit reddish at the beginning, right? So as you can see, this is a really thick, milky secretion. So hence why you need so much of saline to go in just to wash it out. So as you clear the entire airway, then you can start to breathe better.

Dr Raymond Chua: I mean, over the past year, I think we have started to see, a, rise in terms of people, you know, using vapes that are now laced with dangerous substances. And etomidate is one of them. And that's why, last year, in 2024, we only saw about seven cases. But this year, up to date, we have already seen more than 70 cases. So it's a ten fold increase. It's much more addictive than someone who is doing normal, general vapes. 

Aida Johan: Yeah. I think when you mentioned like, dangerous substances, like etomidate right? I think as far as we know, etomidate is supposedly a medical grade ingredient, right? So what? How come it's dangerous when it's in a vape?

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Well, it's a hospital drug, it should be used in the hospital.

Dr Raymond Chua: Yes.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: So you actually have to dose it according to weight. You give it through an injectable form, you know exactly how much dose goes in. Now, if you inhale it, you don't know exactly how much etomidate is actually in that vape pod itself. The lung is a nice bed of blood vessels surrounding it. Whatever that is inhaled in, gets absorbed very quickly and gets distributed to the whole body. It's a dangerous drug. Yeah.

Dr Raymond Chua: And that's why you see there are so many people who have actually taken etomidate vapes, they actually suffer a lot of side effects. Yeah. You know, they have a bit of an uncontrolled movement. They cannot talk properly. They can be very confused, you know, and I think people are doing this because they want the high.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Okay. There are possibly many reasons why they're doing it. You know, whatever the reasons, it shouldn't be any good reason at all.

Dr Raymond Chua: What we have also done, is to list etomidate as a Class C controlled drug under the Misuse of Drug Act. And because of that, if they are being caught we will then put them under the mandatory rehabilitation and  urine supervision regime under the Misuse of Drug Act. We are also seeing how to move upstream, to tackle the importers, because we want to break the supply chain. Putting even etomidate now, under the Misuse of Drug Act would actually mean that, we have much harsher penalties now on the importers and traffickers. From our enforcement perspective, we have always been focusing on fines. But, you know, what we have realised is, a fine may not be sufficient and that is where we have now refined our whole enforcement regime. Just now we mentioned about general vapes, so we found the first offence. Then after that, if you are a repeat offender, we will ensure that you go for a rehabilitation regime, at the Health Promotion Board. Then, after that, of course, if you are a third time offender, we will prosecute you.

Aida Johan: For people that we have heard from right, sometimes they are hesitant to seek treatment or to, like, turn themselves in because they're afraid that, like, it might be on their record. So is that something that actually happens? Especially if I tried etomidate once, now I am addicted. It's been a few months, right. How do I get help without facing repercussions, I guess?

Dr Raymond Chua: As someone from the ministry, we would really want to encourage the people who are really looking for quitting of their vapes habits or cigarette smoking habits please approach the correct authorities because we have  partnered with the different social service agencies as well as Institute of Mental Health (IMH) and Health Promotion Board (HPB). So there is a lot of different helplines and avenues that they can approach. If they do so, actually, there will not be any records   that will be attributed to the individuals. So we encourage the individuals or their family members to bring, you know them to this agency. Actually, now we have actually even located the bins, you know, remember the vape bins at all these different centres so that they can actually dispose of their vapes there as well. So you can see that a lot of our whole regime now is really focused on rehabilitation, because we want to actually help the individuals, the people who vape, either the general vapers or the etomidate vapers.

Aida Johan: The journey that people need to go through right, when they get into contact with a QuitVape Hotline, what does it start with? Is it they will straightaway refer you to a doctor? Get your nicotine patch, or like, what is the process there?

Dr Raymond Chua: I think generally it starts out with counselling understanding why the person wants to vape or wants to smoke. You know, I think it is always good to find out what the root cause is. How heavy is their addiction pattern? What are the dependencies that they are going to do about vaping and smoking? I don’t know whether Dan-

Aida Johan: For Dan, did you have to go through like a whole quitting process after your vaping journey?

Dandiar Rosli: I did not have to go through - the surgery made me do it.

Dr Raymond Chua: What was your experience going through this?

Dandiar Rosli: I think the pain actually caused be to quit because I was a near life and death experience for me, unfortunately. So it was like “I have to quit or I die” moment back then. And thankfully, I survived.

Dr Raymond Chua: We have been talking so much about smoking, vaping, you know. So what do you think, which is the worst?

Aida Johan: This is a trick question.

Dandiar Rosli: Yeah, I can say both are harmful.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: I think that is absolutely correct.

Dr Raymond Chua: Bingo!

Dr Puah Ser Hon: I can't imagine a world where inhaling  any form of smoke is healthy for the lungs. So why start and why do it?

Aida Johan: So why are we banning vapes but we are not banning cigarettes, if they are equally terrible for our bodies?

Dr Raymond Chua: When vapes came up and we looked through evidence I think they were saying that it's a gateway to actually help people quit smoking, but we found limited evidence, you know, for that hypothesis. So I think rather than to allow it, you know, to come in and be the mainstay and, you know, we decide that we might as well stop it. And ban the importation, supply, sales, use, and possession of e-vaporisers. I think if we have gone back in time and if smoking now is being introduced at this point in time. Yeah, we would also have said that we have banned smoking.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: Yeah it’s bad. All I can say is that it is bad.

Dr Raymond Chua: So I think if you are really stressed, maintain a healthy lifestyle, exercise regularly.

Aida Johan: And with that, do you have any last words that you want to share with people who are currently addicted to vaping?

Dr Raymond Chua: Bin the vapes that you already have. So then you actually start by saying that you are not going to vape anymore. Give yourself a second chance. Tell yourself that you want to quit the habit. Volunteer and go to the QuitVape Programme that we have. Or you can approach an of the social service agency or IMH.

Dandiar Rosli: It is not worth it to start and possible, if you are struggling, seek help. It was a really expensive lesson for me.

Dr Puah Ser Hon: One of my main messages is that we are here to help. Please come forward, no one is going to judge you, in fact, everybody wants to help you. Because at the end of the day, getting you healthier, gets the nation healthier.

Aida Johan: So the biggest takeaway from today’s episode is that vapes are not better than cigarettes, right doctor?

Dr Raymond Chua: Worse.

Aida Johan: Because it can be a gateway for you to try more harmful substances, harder substances, and it can contain the same amount of nicotine as up to 70 cigarettes. So thanks for joining us on today's episode, Dr Puah, Dan and Professor Chua; And thanks for tuning in as we unpack the serious harms that vapes bring in our next episode, we're going a little bit deeper. We're talking about Kpods, and the emotional trauma and the impact that it has on the users and their families, so don't forget to check it out in the link below.

Dr Annabelle Chow: So the first thing I always say is, do not scold, do not punish. Once you scold, then you will find that they start to be secretive.

Runnerkao: Youths nowadays, they are actually way smarter than we were when we were young. They already know that vaping is harmful, but they still take it, regardless.

Delfard Tay: If this thing hadn’t started, I would still have my daughter now.

Aida Johan: Welcome back to another episode of our special on vaping and its impact on society. Today, we'll be zooming in a bit more on the usage of vapes amongst the younger crowd, and in this episode, we'll explore the emotional and psychological toll it takes on vape users and their families, plus how parents are navigating raising teens in this very complex vaping landscape. So joining us today, we have Clinical Psychologist Dr Annabelle Chow, Kao, also known as RunnerKao, who has 10.6 million likes on TikTok, and Mr. Delfard Tay, who unfortunately lost his daughter through the use of Kpods. So let's start with Kao. So lately your TikTok, right, it’s full of like vaping content, and you've been speaking to a lot of teens, I think, about this topic. So what have you been hearing from them on the ground?

Runnerkao: I do have a lot of conversations on where they get their vapes, and how much do they know about what vapes really are? Whether they know the harmful effects of vapes, what are the side effects and the different types of vapes available out there. A lot of them, they told me, it is because of curiosity, because a lot of their peers are using it, so they feel that since everyone's using it, then it must be cool. That's when I realised the trend of vapes is on the uptick, because I do hear from them more often than not, over the, during the last few months. That's when I realised I need to really ramp up my anti-vaping content.

Dr Annabelle Chow: I think, from a psychology perspective, that is quite aligned with developmentally where they are. So if you think about our youth, they're actually at that stage where they want to fit in, that, you know, being cool is really important. They're trying to figure out what their identity is. So you know, if you don't do it, then you're not cool. If all my friends are doing it, they have a fear of missing out. But also, on top of that, a lot of them say it's about stress, right? It's a way that they cope with stress. Do you get that?

Runnerkao: I do get that a lot, about stress. Maybe their results are not doing as well as they could. Maybe (they’re) going through some conflicts with their family members. So that's when they start to vape, because they see it as an antidote for them to suppress what they are feeling. Is it because the frontal lobe is not fully developed so they cannot analyse properly?

Dr Annabelle Chow: Correct.

Aida Johan: So we have 2 psychologists on set today.

Runnerkao: No, no, I’m not a psychologist.

Dr Annabelle Chow: Yes, so you're right. Our frontal lobes or our prefrontal cortex, this part is not actually fully developed until we are about 25 years old. So this part of the brain helps us make decisions, helps us plan, helps us weigh out the pros and cons, short term, long term consequences. So you think about the young, right? The adolescents, our youth. This is not fully developed. However, the inside part of our brain, which is the feeling part, called the limbic system, is hot on wheels. Why vaping becomes so addictive is because there are two systems, one being underdeveloped, you cannot make decisions and you cannot weigh out pros and cons; one is hot on feelings, and both of them combined together, it creates this situation where “I'm very stressed now, I want a quick fix”, and vaping helps to meet that quick fix. So if you think about running, right? You need to at least run, I don't know, 20 to 3 o0\0 minutes. I need to at least run 30 minutes before I feel like I'm de-stressed, at the least, right?

Dr Annabelle Chow: But vaping is a quick, immediate hit. It's very accessible. You take it out from your pocket or your bag, and you get the dopamine hit very quickly. So dopamine is that ‘feel good’ hormone, right? So like when you eat cake or when you go running or when you vape, it actually activates that part of the brain. So all in all, it makes it very addictive, you know, when they are at that developmental stage, they don't actually think about what it actually means to them, they don't really understand the consequences. So if you tell them, “Oh, you might get cancer later”, it's a bit too far for them to understand that. Maybe instead, if you tell them “you can't make it to the school team, you know your stamina is affected. You have bad breath, you might have more acne. You know, your skin is not clear”, then these things affect them.

Runnerkao: Two of the youth, they told me directly, saying, initially we were in the basketball school team, but the coach dropped us. It's because our stamina was getting poorer and poorer. Yeah, that's when they realised, “actually basketball means more to me than vaping”. So eventually they quit. It’s because of basketball.

Aida Johan: So for Delfard, your daughter actually started out with the normal vapes first before progressing to Kpods, right? So, what was the story like there?

Delfard Tay: 2022, when I first came out of prison, I saw her using vape, and this vape, right? I already heard from prison people coming in and saying, now, no need for cigarettes already. Vape can already. Some more, it is very convenient in pod size, yeah, so when I went out, I saw my daughter vaping, and there's a lot of flavors. From time to time, you know, we, I can say she talks about it, “Hey, this device is good, that device is good”. So it becomes a conversation between us. 

Aida Johan: When your daughter started on, like, the clean vapes, was she very, like, addicted? And did you see her friends also, like, super into, super hooked on vapes? Like, what were you thinking? I think at that point.

Delfard Tay: It's a trend for them. And then, I see everyone also take on vape. Yeah, start from pods, and then move to disposable, a lot of kinds. At that point, I think I didn't think much. I thought it's convenient, and that it's not harmful. To me, I didn't know what would happen.

Aida Johan: Yeah.

Delfard Tay: Yeah. People said smoking will cause lung cancer, everything. But this vape, I still go and research all this. It didn't say that it’s harmful or anything.

Aida Johan: Correct, because it’s still new. 

Delfard Tay: It's still new.  So until something like Kpod happens.

Aida Johan: Yeah, okay. And then, like, it was like, what, two years later, or something, when she started introducing you to Kpods right?

Delfard Tay: Yes. In 2024, one day she came back. She said, “Hey, Dad” - she spoke in Chinese, “Dad, try this. This can give you a ‘high’.”

Delfard Tay: Then I asked, “why do you take such things?” so I just said, “don't take this.” And we had a few arguments about this. Yeah, she said it's not illegal.

Delfard Tay: Then, what she told me was “It won’t be detected in the urine.” That means the urine will not, detected, yeah. So after the argument, right, she didn't show me how she shook, all this. Yeah, I only caught it through the cameras because she didn't want me, I don't know, she didn't want me to, you know, scold her or anything like that.

Aida Johan: So we've got a video from another member of public right, showing some kids suffering from the effects of Kpods. You can just press play. So these are common symptoms that we see.They're like twitching, behaving really oddly I think. As you can see, like a number of them were actually quite young. It's not a lot of the middle aged. It’s usually teenagers, right? So for Delfard, I think you mentioned that you saw your daughter's behavior through your house's CCTV, was it  something similar that you saw?  

Delfard Tay: Yes, something similar. They will repeatedly do things, like not properly done. Like putting one can of beer down, she will keep trying to put it properly, and it will topple, something like that.

Aida Johan: So when your daughter started on Kpods, right? What were some of the things that you saw, like you mentioned, there were some behavioural changes, right? What did you experience with her?

Delfard Tay: She will be very open. Like, she would be talkative, you know, but if she didn't smoke, right? She would be moody. This vape shouldn't have started, because this is the first of, you know, Kpods, all this. People misuse it, people twist it, yeah, so if this thing hadn’t started, yeah, I would still have my daughter now.

Runnerkao: Because a lot of young people, they do, come up to me, asking, what exactly is vape. And some of them are confused, what is the difference between vapes and Kpods? For me, I put it very bluntly to them, all types of vapes are poison. Everything is no good, regardless of whatever ingredient they put inside. I just tell them, it will destroy your organs. I think it's the manufacturer's fault, because the way they package the vapes, it is aesthetically pleasing. That's the reason why they still have the stigma that cigarettes are harmful, but vape is not. Because of the way they package it, they named flavours like lychee freeze, mango ice, bubble gum. All these types of cool names that shift the perception of the harmfulness of the vape. So this is something that through my content, I am trying to shift their perception that all vapes aren’t harmful.

Aida Johan: Yeah, so for you, right? You speak to a lot of parents, whose, I guess, concerns would be that their children are hooked on vapes, things like that. What do you usually tell them, like, what are the things that they can do to counter…

Dr Annabelle Chow: So the first thing I always say is, do not scold. Do not scold, do not punish. And I think this is very natural, like it is ingrained in our culture, because our parents, our grandparents, and it's a cultural thing. But do not scold, because once you scold, then you will find that they start to be secretive. They hide it from you, they don't tell you. And one of the premises to be able to help our kids is to have a good relationship with them. And once you have a good relationship with them, you are inviting conversations, then you have a chance at helping them. The second thing is, be curious, ask questions. I see vapes or Kpods or whatever that comes after as a manifestation, as a consequence of something. So I think finding out the reason why they started on it means that we have a better chance at helping them. So for example, they say, “If I don't do it, and then I get bullied, you know, my friends don't want to befriend me,you know, they exclude me from their groups.” Then it's actually about talking about those strategies, right? And also helping them understand, are these the friends you actually want to hang out with, helping them make informed choices. Or if they say that, “You know, I'm very stressed, that's why I started vaping, it helps me manage my stress quickly”. Then that gives me, you know, a segue to a new strategy to help manage their stress.

Runnerkao: What I notice about my own kids, how they behave as they grow up, as they grow from young eventually to become primary school kids, now, going to secondary school soon. More often than not, I realise my kids right, a lot of things that they learn is from influencers online. Yeah, whether it's good or bad, because my kids love influencers like Mr. Beast, IShowSpeed, all these huge influencers. So sometimes, you know, influencers in America, they are not as, not as regulated, and they do a lot of nonsense things online. So for myself, I will always put myself in their shoes - that means following who they follow. If I have the chance to correct them on the spot, then I will correct them on the spot. Youths nowadays, they are actually way smarter than we were when we were young, they know everything. Yeah, more often than not, they already know that vape is harmful. They know it's bad, but they still take it regardless. I always try my best to communicate, you know, on a level that is using their own lingo to talk to them so that they will be able to absorb better. And they do not show a lot of resistance to me, because they feel that I'm already their friend. When you use that type of lingo in a fun way, right? That's when they start to be more relaxed. They are more willing to be open, to listen to what I have to say, why vaping is harmful all this, yeah,

Delfard Tay: So since Shermaine was about six years old, I just took her in, but I never gave her good parenting. I thought spending time with her was to just give her an iPad, by just being with her. But no, I think I myself knew that I must do activities with her, but I didn't connect with her. 

Aida Johan: But that was the best you could do at that point also.

Delfard Tay: Yes, because I was a bit busy with business. My mind was on money. As long as I, you know, earn as much money I can, you know, sponsor her to study this, or learn this or learn that, but end up, you know, everything becomes not the same. Actually, now I learned time can be arranged, like what you said, 15 minutes, 10 minutes all this, we can arrange all this time for them. It's just that sometimes we are lazy or we give excuses like tired.

Dr Annabelle Chow: Tired. I think it's really hard, because usually, if you look at the parents' age and the child's age, usually that's the time where the parents are busy working and trying to earn money for education, and there's increased finances. And then there's the time where the children's needs are the highest. So as a working parent, it is really difficult to tango that and find, you know, like the energy level or the headspace to actually be able to spend time.

Runnerkao: Because I have young kids of my own, more often than not, same as you all, I always forget also. So every day, my wife has to remind me, “Hey, dear, don't keep scrolling your handphone. Go and talk to the children. Ask them, how's their day?”. Because I'm not that type of person. So this is something I'm very thankful for, that my wife is constantly reminding me that knowing what's going on with your child on a daily basis is actually very important to build a bond like what Annabelle has shared just now. 

Aida Johan: Okay, how about for things that are a little bit of a tricky situation, like you do speak to your kids, right, for example, I ask, “How's your day?”. And then your kid says, “I had a great day. I discovered vapes today.” How do you approach that?

Dr Annabelle Chow: Yeah, so, “Tell me a bit more!”, curiosity. No scolding, curiosity. Ask, like, “Oh, where do you get the vapes from? Like, tell me more. Like, you know, what made you decide to try it? You know? How does it taste? Do you have it? Show me? Can we talk about it? Then how do you feel?” 

Aida Johan: Then just throw.

Dr Annabelle Chow: No, then they will get really angry at you. “Then tell me more about it, like show me, talk to me about it”, right? First, you must connect, then you can correct, right? So they must feel, you must be genuine, and then they feel like you understand. I think that's what's happening with Kao, right? Like the kids that talk to you, they feel like you understand, I mean to the fact that they want to tell you

Runnerkao: A lot of the time, I will ask them, “Hey, why do you all share so much with me? Because I'm not your dad, I'm not your brother, why do you all keep telling me?” Then, more often than not, they will say, “my parents don’t care, they don't want to talk to me.” Okay, there was one incident that I still really, I still remember deep in my mind, is when I was, one day live streaming and having my lunch at the same time, one boy just came up to me and asked me, “RunnerKao, can I talk to you for a little while, in regards to vaping? It's regarding vaping”. Then I realised he just needs someone to listen to him. His friend, a good friend of his, who had been vaping, right, met with an accident. He just needed someone to listen to him. I may not be able to resolve his issue, but there was someone to listen to him, making him feel better at the moment.

Dr Annabelle Chow: I think that maybe it's a really critical point. I think rarely, if any, we can resolve somebody's issue. So I think when we start to make intentional space for the people we care about, then there's a bit of a ripple effect, right? Like, you know, then we have an ecosystem that is less lonely, and then you don't feel like you need to take substances to hit a ‘high’, or like to cope with your stress. 

Runnerkao: Talk to me can also hit a ‘high’, so talk to me better.

Dr Annabelle Chow: So, can talk to him.

Aida Johan: For Delfard, right? Did you speak to Shermaine's friends afterwards?

Delfard Tay: Yes, some of them still contact me. Sometimes we still go out and eat. They will check in (on me). Papa Tay, they call me Papa Tay, “How are you?”. Some of them, and I also encourage them, and a few of them who saw Shermaine’s situation, right? Yeah, they stopped.

Aida Johan: Okay. Yeah, and like, because you guided them 

Delfard Tay: Maybe (because) they are also scared of what happened.

Runnerkao: I feel that sharing your story in the public, right, actually helps a lot of people, in my opinion. So when they hear you relate your story, right? It really helps them to build a perspective on how serious vaping can be. So, I really applaud you. 

Aida Johan: Is that something you share with Shermaine's friends as well? Yes, you remind them.

Delfard Tay: Yeah, I remind them, you see Shermaine. Yeah, not only Kpod, but if they vape, I will tell them, stop that vape.

Dr Annabelle Chow: For a parent to lose a child is one of the hardest pain any living person or anyone has to go through. And I think it's very confronting and very brave for you to share about this so that you were telling me you want to stop people from taking vapes because the consequence is irreversible. 

Aida Johan: So do you have any advice that you want to give to parents or any final thoughts, to young children who are on Kpods.

Delfard Tay: To parents, pay attention to your child and then, like what doctor said, spend time with them and try to connect with them. For the young ones, you think this is cool, but it's not. One puff of it, it will really ruin you. It will steal your dreams, it will kill your future, and it will destroy your family. Look at me and my daughter. I share this, it’s not to get sympathy, actually. I share this so that just one, just one of you can be saved. And my daughter's memories, can  serve a purpose. 

Aida Johan: For Kao, do you have any last words to like your young followers, or those parents who also have young teens like you?

Runnerkao: It is somewhat the same meaning as Delfard’s. Just that I (will) try to say it in the Gen Z lingo. Is it okay? So yes, like what I said, vaping is not sigma. If you think vaping is cool, you're a fool, and you do not have any aura points if you vape and if anyone tells you that vaping is a trend, no, it's not a trend, vaping is a threat. It's poisonous. Don't take it everyone. If you take it, you're not my bestie.

Aida Johan: Dr Annabelle?

Dr Annabelle Chow: All I want to say is, you know, not just vaping, maybe I will start broadly speaking. As long as you're struggling with something, talk to a trusted adult. Talk, it can be Kao, it can be a family member, it can be a teacher. But talk to a trusted adult, because you are not alone in this, and you don't have to be. So HPB now has a QuitVape programme. They have agencies all around Singapore. They're designed to help you. You can walk into their agencies, you can call them, you can WhatsApp them, but reach out for help. You are not alone in this. 

Aida Johan: Okay, thank you Dr Annabelle. Thank you Delfard, and thank you Kao for sharing these stories. So if you or a loved one need a little nudge in the right direction to quit vaping, you can check out the link below for the resources that are available. And with that, we've come to the end of today's episode. We hope these conversations that we had today helped to shed some light and understanding on the struggles that vape users face and the impacts on their families. So if, like what Dr Annabelle said, if you need some help, don't be afraid to reach out. There are resources available, and we could always use a little bit of support. Thanks for watching today's episode. We'll catch you next time.